Warning about web scam aimed at wanna...

Author Message   A Non e-Mouse Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 03:26 pm:    This is a warning about a fraudulent extortion ring that goes by the name of Longridge Writers Group. This "writer's" group is an Internet scam. They will give you an on-line test and then reply, telling you that you have great potential to be a writer. You will be invited to join the group for what seems to be a perfectly reasonable monthly fee. You will even be assigned a "personal instructor" who will critique your writing for you. The instructor turns out to be non-existent at worst, or a hi skool graduit whoo speels worst than yew due! Plus they nickel-and-dime you for every contact you make with them. Then they will charge you a $250 "resignation fee" when you realize what they are and want to get out. Ignore their harassing letters, and they'll get a collection agency after you to collect their resignation fee. Longridge Writers Group is nothing more than an Internet extortion ring, pure and simple!   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 03:50 pm:    Here is the link to their official website, for anyone who wishes to learn more about this writers group. "Long Ridge Writers Group" http://www.longridgewritersgroup.com/   A Non e-Mouse Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 04:35 pm:    Yeah, their web site sure looks respectable and professional doesn't it...   Matt Hughes Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 05:17 pm:    Until you start looking up their instructors' books on Amazon. Then it all gets a little vague. Matt Hughes http://www.archonate.com/   TCO Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 06:25 pm:    It looks like it is written for morons. People that stupid should not try being writers.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 06:30 pm:    I've done a search on the Long Ridge Writers Group with the BBBOnLine (Better Business Bureau) and this is what turns up; "BBBOnLine Seal Verification - Long Ridge Writers Group" http://www.bbbonline.org/cks.asp?id=20208191214250371 There appears to be no problems with them. I suspect your reason for remaining anonymous, is due to the fact that you are concealing a chink in your own armor in a battle with them. Come on, identify yourself! If it's worth pointing a finger and accusing an establishment of being a scam outfit, then it's worth giving out your true name.   EDatlow Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 07:09 pm:    Mary Rosenblum, one of the instructors, is a respected sf writer and I've recently published one of her stories on SCIFICTION. She's certainly legit.   EDatlow Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 07:11 pm:    And Ernie Volkman was a freelance writer for OMNI while I was working there. So A Non e-Mouse, if you're going to libel respectible writers put your proof where your mouth is.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 07:30 pm:    Yay, Ellen! "Jumpers", by Mary Rosenblum, is absolutely superb, by the way. Oops, for cripes sakes! Was that another plug? ;-)   EDatlow Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 08:39 pm:    Well, at least it's not in the word quiz section :-) Glad you liked it.   TCO Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 08:52 pm:    It looks pretty hokey to me. That part with the 1000s of writers and all that crap. And nonny is too stupid to be a writer anyhow. They are just parting him from his money. How many people do you think fail that aptitude test? As many people as get a "termite inspection" that finds nothing. Donut hole. Couldn't google much bad about them. Still sounds like a rathole, though. Lot more people making money selling picks and shovels than finding gold...   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 09:30 pm:    But then, haven't you heard? Hmmm, I reckon not. Gold is where you find it.   Matt Hughes Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 10:44 pm:    I ran a half a dozen of the titles of the instructors' listed books through Amazon. Some came up with no listing even though they were supposed to be recent works from major publishers; with others, the title was there but the author's name and the publisher were different. I suppose one way to find out is to take the aptitude test, submit an absolutely horrible piece and see if it gets a "shows great promise" response. Or ask a reputable writer listed as an instructor if the place is legit. Matt Hughes http://www.archonate.com/   Patrick Samphire Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 02:59 am:    Without making any comment on whether this enterprise is legitimate or not, the "sample lesson" on the site is fairly poor if you're going to be paying for it. I recommend a couple of good writing books and a critique group.   Jamie Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 09:15 am:    It looks a bit iffy to me. Whether it's a "scam" per se, I couldn't say, but I'd be hesitant to pay good money for anything like what they're offering. I don't care whose name is attached to it.   ET Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 10:39 am:    Can't say if it's respectable or not, but I hate it that they don't tell you the price up front. I don't want to have to be made part of their mailing database just to see that info. In my book, that makes them feel like a scam.   Rob Darnell Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 08:07 pm:    Does SFWA have anything to say on them?   TCO Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 04:19 am:    Fark Ellen, just cause some of the instructors sold a story to you doesn't mean that they are great writers. Or that they are honest. Heck, I've never heard of them. Maybe they are just milking the miners.   Patrick Samphire Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 04:27 am:    Well, TCO, Mary Rosenblum has done a lot more than just sell a story to Ellen. She has had dozens in Asimovs and F&SF, and has published several novels. The fact that you've never heard of someone simply means they are under 70 and have published in the last 20 years.   Pat M. Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 06:29 am:    I would think that writing is no different than anything else... Being able to write and being able to TEACH how to write is two different skills. Just because you are successful at one does not guarantee that you are good at the other. I have to agree with TCO here. Being published does not make you more honest. Being associated with a Mail-in college does nothing for their credibility in my book either. -Pat M.   Patrick Samphire Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 07:36 am:    Let's be a little careful about the accusations here, shall we? There's a whole continent of difference between a scam and a product that is of little use. For me, this college would probably be the latter. But if I chose to go for it, the information on the website would let me know what I was letting myself in for. These people are offering a product. It is far from a unique product. There are plenty of mail-in writing courses. Running one doesn't make you dishonest. It may be of limited or no use for many writers, but that's not the same at all.   Pat M. Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 08:10 am:    Point well taken but I don't believe I called either operation a scam or implied dishonesty. I stated that I believe being published does not require teaching skills or honesty. Not that they lack either... If you are looking at a product that appears of limited or no value, doesn't it feel like a scam though? Again, they could be very good at their services with the exception of a disgruntled Anonymous poster. Their pricing could be reasonable and when all totalled out, cheaper and more effective than a college creative writing course. I don't think we can call it a scam at this point but I don't think it is in the same range of respectability as a Clarion or something in that range. I must say it did pain me to agree with a TCO point... -Pat M.   Patrick Samphire Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 08:54 am:    Couldn't do it myself... I don't think the fact that it has no value to me makes it a scam. Women's underwear has no (monetary) value to me, yet it isn't a scam.   chance Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 09:16 am:    I am troubled that it does not appear that you can get any cost data without taking their hokey test. That doesn't mean they aren't on the up and up, but anyone who won't tell me how much something costs right away makes me run in the other direction.   LeslieWhat Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 09:54 am:    I talked with Mary about the program when I saw her in Seattle and can report she takes teaching seriously and devotes a lot of her time to her students. I don't know anything about the program administration or cost. I don't think signing up for this program for a resume credit is worthwhile but it does sound like there's some real information, presented in an orderly and useful manner, and honest feedback is provided from people who are professionally published. That kind of thing has value, imho. It's certainly up to the student to decide if the cost equals the possible benefits.   EDatlow Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 10:54 am:    Ernie Volkman, the other writer I mentioned is a respected science writer. I just know his reputation from when I worked at OMNI as fiction editor. Never said two words to the man. Mary Rosenblum has won the Compton Cook award for one of her novels and been nominated for the Hugo. And just fyi she attended Clarion. Now of course, this doesn't necessarily mean Mary is a a good teacher and I don't really know her except in passing, but I don't believe she'd knowingly be involved in scamming writers. As others have said earlier, just because a program isn't good for <i9>you</i> it doesn't mean it's a scam. I took publishing courses, early in my career and they were pretty useless to me --I learned as much on the job. But I would never consider those courses scams.   Matt Hughes Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 11:26 am:    First-hand testimonial from a credible source is good enough for me. I withdraw my equivocations. I'm still puzzled, though, about why some of the titles from major publishers -- Dying for Elvis, Kate's Challenge, A Touch of Ginger, et al. -- don't come up on Amazon or come up under other authors' names and imprints. Sloppiness at the website, perhaps. Matt Hughes http://www.archonate.com/   Pat M. Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 01:16 pm:    Going back to the first post - Resignation fee? Nickel and Diming for contact? Those sound scammish but does not define something as a scam. Heck, I think online subscription diets are a scam. Pay me $5 a month to tell me what you ate... Of course if you sign up for a six month contract, expect to pay $30 even if you stop using it after 2 weeks. That's not a scam, it's a contract. I do think women's underwear is a scam though. Everytime I order it from a magazine, it gets delivered without the model. Feels like a scam is different than scam. I see a lot of things that I consider scams but are real services. I got a flyer offering to paint my address number on my driveway for $15. I'm sure they would have painted my driveway had I responded. The scam part was that the flyer was worded as if the fire department or town was recommending it. They weren't... I think we are all in agreement here though. It probably isn't a scam but it doesn't appear to be a great investment for contributors to this thread. The Resignation fee has me concerned but college courses charge you even if you withdraw after a certain point. Details of the program and fees would be interesting to see. -Pat M.   EDatlow Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 03:10 pm:    And why do you believe a poster who doesn't give his/her name?   Pat M. Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 06:03 pm:    Actually, I am taking it at face value. With no contradictory pricing on the website, it is an unsubstantiated claim with nothing to refute it. Personally, I wouldn't sign up for anything without understanding how much it will cost me to get out if I don't like it. More than likely, our anonymous poster didn't do his/her homework on what this course offered or cost. Signed up for the monthly payment rather than pay the whole thing up front, then asked for additional critiquing beyond the standard course and was asked for payment for said services. At that point, Anonymous felt he/she was getting scammed and tried to cut out on the monthly payments but still owed $250. That's my guess at this point. For all intents and purposes I am also an anonymous poster. Does that mean people shouldn't believe me? -Pat M.   EDatlow Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 08:24 pm:    Pat, No you aren't. You're willing to put your name out there (whether it's false or not is a different issue). And you're not making accusations.   Jonathan Creek Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 06:58 am:    Not sure how being willing to put forward a name that could just as well be false makes a source more credible. 'Pat M.' (;P) has a point.   Pat M. Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 07:05 am:    Ellen, By comparison to yourself, Matt Hughes and Patrick Samphire I am very anonymous. By choice I might add. I google my name and email addresses regularly to make sure they aren't out there. I get very little spam. I would say any claim, whether anonymous or with a name should be taken for what it is. Someone else's opinion or experience from their perspective. An anonymous poster is the My cousin's sister-in-law's nephew's boss said xxx. How is "Samphire" pronounced? -Pat M.   Patrick Samphire Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 07:47 am:    Samphire is pronounced Samfire, although you'd perhaps be surprised at the way it comes out.   Pat M. Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 08:13 am:    Ah, Thanks! I was going with Sampeer or Samfeer. I'm not sure why.   TCO Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 07:03 pm:    Ellen, ellen, ellen...   EDatlow Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 10:10 pm:    You rang?   TCO Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 08:34 am:    Would you like to make an advance on the Alaska story. I'll consider (shop) your offer. ;)   TCO Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 08:35 am:    Don't say no, because..."you know you want it, baby!"   Jer Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 09:16 am:    Does this mean that TCO submitted a story?   EDatlow Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 09:59 am:    I have no idea....   TCO Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 02:43 pm:    I have to decide which lowly editor should get the blessings of my wit. Then I have to type a bunch of words into the computer. Sounds like work... Could I outsource it to a Chinese and just market it? Wait, that is what the editors do!   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 05:15 pm:    <prorr-wooort!> Pardon me, my finger slipped!   Pat M. Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 05:02 am:    Wouldn't outsourcing be what an Agent does? Tries to get the best price for a story that someone else wrote and takes a portion for himself?   ET Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 06:53 am:    Not really. You're describing something closer to a retailer here (sells a product and takes a cut). Outsourcing means hiring someone to do a specific job for a specific price. That's far from what an agent does. (Neither is an agent exactly like a retailer, but it's much closer, IMO.)   Pat M. Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:07 pm:    Good point. I just thought the Editor analogy didn't fit. Maybe the publisher fits that model of an outsourcer better.   Pat M. Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:08 pm:    What is the Alaska Story?   Jer Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:47 pm:    Pat: Ghostwriting. That's the only term I know of in the publishing industry that seems almost synonymous with outsourcing. (Sorry TCO, but publisher doesn't really come close, except when they procure some ghostwriting of course, and even then it's the supposed author that seems to fit the bill most accurately) The question is, would it be worth hiring a chinese ghostwriter for a short story about alaska? The logistical problems alone seem almost insurmountable, not to mention the language barrier, and the fact that TCO would be taking jobs from starving american writers just to hand them over to starving chinese writers. My suggestion is that you put the sory online and post the link to the message board. That way, you could get some feedback from other writers and/or wannabe's, and compare your clickthrough rates to SCIFICTION's.   TCO Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 05:30 pm:    It's outsourcing, if you think of it in this way. A company has some business, they do certain things in-house and out of house. I they had writers on staff, then it would be in house. If they use free-lancers, they outsource their content creation. (and yes, they don't outsource it ALL, since the editor does some shaping of it.)   Pat M. Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 06:01 pm:    If Alaska is the name of some top secret project and the story is told by a chinese grad student who happens to discover the "real" reason for the Alaska project, Outsourcing to China makes perfect sense. Hmmm, I see it as subcontracting. Is subcontracting and outsourcing the same?   TCO Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 06:56 pm:    basically. It is only recently that outsourcing has come to be associated with China. Before, it was just companies firing their janitors and hiring ARAMARK. Or getting rid of their IT and bringing in EDS. Sometimes the China stuff is called "offshoring", to differentiate it from outsourcing to a local contractor.   Matt hughes Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 07:55 pm:    Seriously, if anyone's looking for a ghostwriter, I'm just wrapping up my third book-length assignment and open for offers. See the blurb on my website at http://www.archonate.com/writer-for-hire Matt Hughes   TCO Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 11:47 am:    How much would it cost me for you to help me Milli Vanilli a fiction title? Seriously.   Matt Hughes Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 12:12 pm:    TCO: I don't do business in public. Send me an e-mail. My address is on the writer-for-hire page of my website. Matt Hughes http://www.archonate.com/   TCO Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 05:46 pm:    Ok. I'm not seriously considering it. More interested in it intellectually. Could you tell me what you think it would cost in general to get someone to produce a salable novel that another person can put their name on? Maybe a reasonable range?   Pat M. Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 07:28 pm:    Do people ghost write fiction? I always thought ghost writers were for Non-fiction famous people who can't write.   Matt Hughes Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 07:46 pm:    TCO: From scratch, $30,000 and up. From an outline, $25,000. Pat M.: Yes. Matt Hughes http://www.archonate.com   Pat M. Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 09:54 am:    Interesting. So when something is Ghostwritten, Is the publisher aware of the ghostwriter? Or is it just the Author and the ghostwriter? So a ghostwriter takes a one time fee, regardless of the eventual sales of the book? I would assume that one hires a ghostwriter when there is already a contract in place??? For example when a writer has taken on to many contracts and can't meet all the deadlines? Or is it more for the Brilliant scientist who has an idea for a story but can't develop realistic characters? Or is it TCO who just wants to be published and thinks he will have an easier time on the second book because he has a 'name'? Would ghost writing a SF genre book cause problems with your TOR contract? I get the concept behind it but I don't understand how the industry handles it.   Matt Hughes Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 12:35 pm:    Pat M.: My experience is limited to three books. I've written for one-time fee, and for a fee plus shares in the royalties. I've written for a brilliant man who had trouble turning his idea into a plot and characters. Ghosts are useful for calebrity authors (William Shatner?) whose names will sell novels. Matt Hughes http://www.archonate.com/   TCO Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 05:16 pm:    or it could just be for vanity. I don't hold any illusions that popping the cherry with a ghostwriter would turn me into a salable article.   Todd Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 05:55 pm:    I'm chiming in late here, but did take their "test" over a decade ago. I never signed up but still occasionally receive course materials when new classes are scheduled to start. Basically, it's around $500 for an 18 month course (pacing varies). The brochure states it's an "all inclusive" fee, and you can choose to pay it installments. They supply a bunch of materials, assignments and feedback along the way. Over the years, I've been tempted to take the course - depending on my level of disposable income. These guys appear to have been around for quite some time, and have a good BBB rating. I'm troubled by accusations of "nickel and diming," and hope that isn't the case.   Mary Rosenblum Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:50 pm:    Hi, all. A few folk mentioned to me that Long Ridge was being blasted here and I had to come post. Yes, I teach for Long Ridge and I run their website which is a resource for all writers and no, you don't have to leave your email address and get spammed to use it! Please visit it. www.longridgewritersgroup.com The course is actually quite good. LR hires only pro writers who can also teach. They have learned that providing a good product gets em clients and yes, many of my students publish. Many don't. There are...as we all know...many reasons for success or failure in this biz. In this world of scams, LR gives you what you pay for, a good basic how to write course. Mary Rosenblum, SFWA, MWA   TCO Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 08:18 am:    caution....   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 04:00 pm:    Cautionary measures should be taken into consideration with everything we do in life. Or, did no one teach you that when you were young? Before you proceed with anything on your own free will, know the instructions first, and do accordingly. Then you won't be a fu�*k up in life like some people are.   TCO Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 09:46 pm:    Doesn't smell right: The " pre-admission test". Not having the terms of the payments freely available information. Stay away, young Skywalker.   Pat M. Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 04:53 am:    Doesn't Clarion have a pre-admission test?   Mary Rosenblum Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 08:24 am:    The pre admission test is for a reason. LR does promise students of its Breaking into Print course that they will end up with two publishable ms. You can't fulfill that promise if a person can't write a coherent sentence. It sorts out more advanced students from people who need a really basic course. Yes, Clarion requires a 'pre admission test.' I'm a grad. You have to submit a story. And it's a TOUGH test, let me tell you. I have read submissions for them in past years. :-) Let's face it, writing courses will not turn someone into a pro who doesn't have the ability, but if you are going to take a course on craft, there's nothing wrong with the LR course. Courses are also offered at community colleges and all over the internet. None of them are free. Mary Rosenblum   Pat M. Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 11:43 am:    Mary, Thank you for your candor. One question, could you specifically address the question of fees? Any course or program is going to have an up front cost, possibly with the option to finance this through deferred payments. Is the above posting by Todd accurate or are there cases where there would be additional costs beyond the 'basic' cost as the anonymous person who started this thread suggests? -Pat M.   Patrick Samphire Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 01:32 am:    I'd be interested in the question of fees, too. Clarion, for example, states clearly up front what the fees are. Any workshop that doesn't must raise at least some suspicions in prospective writers, as we've seen. I've no doubt, from the list of instructors, that these are good writers and possibly good teachers, but knowing the full cost would make it easy for someone to know if it was worth pursuing.   TCO Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:42 pm:    It stinks Mary. Frigging roach motel. Easy check in. Hard to get out. Why the hell did you pass a numskull like Nony on the admissions test. Perhaps...THE MONEY! Oh...WTH do you not give out the conract terms directly. Why the rigamarole? It's sleazy. I hope noone uses your course and it dies like a fish on the boat. But then again there are always suckers...   Shirley Perkins Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 01:42 pm:    Mary, Thanks for speaking up. I am considering taking the course even after I've read all the cautionary posts.(That is, if I pass the test). The fact is, whether I become a successful writer or not depends as much on me I believe, and the work I put into the course as it does on the cost or marketing techniques of the program. I could take a course at the local college, but that wouldn't assure me a successful writing career any more than LR, and wouldn't necessarily cost less. Now if this is a scam you tell me right this minute, or I will write something nasty after I've finished the course (and by then, Sister, I'll know how to write it!)   TCO Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 03:59 pm:    Take the course, Shirl. Suckers deserve their whipping.   J. D. L. Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 05:34 pm:    Heh, has anyone considered that the starter of this topic was using some clever advertising tactics? He brought several people to its defense, a link to the website, and free (mostly good) publicity. I'm seeing some good marketing here...   Shirley Perkins Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 09:47 pm:    TCO, I may be a little lollipop, but I'm no sucker. I'm gonna need a pick and shovel. I can't dig for gold with my fingers.   Jennifer Stone Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 02:18 am:    If it was a marketing ploy, it really wasn't well thought out. This is obviously a domain for snobs who believe a correspondence course is below them. While Mary Rosenblum's comments may lend a measure of credibility to the course, another venue with a less "writercentric" demographic would have been better suited for recruitment. Still, being wary of promoters in sheep's clothing is wise. A public posting can be an effective tool for an experienced grifter. But I guess you Clarion types is too smart fer that, now ain't 'cha.   LeslieWhat Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 09:51 am:    This is more than my two cents and I probably owe the boards for the following post. I've taught at Clarion and at many conferences and really love to teach. I'm going back to school, at a low-residency MFA program (primarily a correspondence course) so that I'll have the credential I need to teach at the university level. Many of my students tell me I've made a big difference in their writing lives, but others think I'm full of it. The truth is that you take a chance and experiment any time you take a writing course or go to a writing conference. There are no guarantees that THE ONE class exists or that you'll connect with every teacher. Some writers are autodidacts and don't need any help. Others are like me and appreciate all the help we can get. Some people see asking for help as a moral failing; my advice to them is to get over it. I didn't write for many years after attending Clarion and had forgotten lots of what happened there. I attended a great monthly workshop but also wanted to go to another really great conference, just for the experience. I asked around and everyone recommended Bread Loaf. Guess what? It sucked. Turned out my year was the year before it got good again. I felt my time, money, and emotional resources were squandered. A friend later convinced me to go with her to take a class with Robert Boswell, who turned out to be a great teacher and I was really happy I took a chance on attending another conference. You never know ahead of time. It's like life. The cost of the Long Ridge (or Lone Ridge?) course is a little more than I was paid for my most recent short story sale. It's not the most money in the world but it's a significant chunk for many of us and I would advise prospective students (as I advise students in any of my classes) to consider how the course would benefit them and compare that to other available options. Some conferences offer networking opportunities. If you're at a point in your career where you can get away from work and home and meeting editors and agents might be useful, you might consider attending one of those (don't be surprised if it costs more than $500 with hotel and airfare). Some writers need professional feedback and would benefit from closer guidance than they can get from reading books (Although everyone should buy CREATING SHORT FICTION by Damon Knight). IMHO, a class that seeks to help you improve your skills is a better investment than hiring a "freelance editor" to fix what you've already written. You can sometimes take a non-credit college level course taught by some nationally recognized creative writing teacher for around $700.00 a semester--contact the writing department in advance. Some people have access to low-cost classes at their community colleges (not all instructors who teach adult education writing classes are professional writers). Some people can't leave their homes because of children or other commitments or whatever and correspondence courses may be ideal. I have two friends who signed up for correspondence courses before they were connected to other writing communities and both felt they learned enough to justify the cost of the course. They have both gone on to publish lots and lots of stuff. I expect they would have gone on to publish lots without these courses. It's a good idea to research a course/conference/workshop before signing up. Ask around. I think choosing a teacher is as important - or more important than choosing a course (Bread Loaf taught me this). Check out the boards. Talk with the faculty and ask if you can write to some of the former or current students. If it sounds like what you need at this point in your writing career, decide if the risk is worth the possible benefit and make a decision. Your decision could turn out to be the best thing you ever did, or you could be wrong and feel bad after. Weird coincidence: there's a guy up the street from me who went to Bread Loaf my year and thought it was swell. Don't feel like this has to be the only thing you'll ever try, because if it isn't what you need, you can always try another approach. xxoo Leslie What (Not affiliated with the administration of any writing courses, although I am teaching at a few conferences in the next year, including Clarion)   A Non e-Mouse Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 05:20 pm:    I am the original anonymous poster, and I have good news! I am pleased to report that Longridge and I have reached a fair compromise. I can resign without penalty, but I will pay the penalty if I ever want to resume my membership where I left off. Longridge will call off their collection agency, and I will cease my complaints with the BBB and various other consumer protection agencies. Therefore, the issue is amicably resolved. I regret that I upset a number of people here. But sometimes a powerless peon (who doesn't have an army of lawyers behind him, and paid-off politicians to draft laws that favor big business over the private citizen) must resort to "making lots of noise" in order to get justice. But before I sign-off, I would like to reply to Rosenblum... Let's see. I paid Longridge over $300 during my membership in their writers' group. In return I received two paperback books and a binder, worth, I'd guess, about $50. I'd say you have been paid quite well! So cut that crap that you deserve to be paid! I know that I agreed to join and pay my monthly membership fee. Then, through no fault of my own, I lost my job because I was the victim of hazing within my department at a major corporation, and because I complained about it to another manager. Now, being a single father, I had to cut my expenses to the bone. I sent you a resignation letter, cutting my losses at $300 less cost of goods purchased. I'd been abused and maligned by big business enough! And I'm effing sick of it! But YOU wouldn't let it end there. You then sent a collection agency after me to collect an additional $250 "resignation fee" from me. Mary, YOU ware the aggressor! So as you suggested, whenever there is a dispute, truly it is wise to ask what each underlying motive is... Your motive: greed--on top of the triple-digit-percent profit you made off me, you sent a collection agency after me to squeeze another $250 from me. My motive: I simply want to be left alone. You are the aggressors and I am the victim. So yes, isn't it enlightening when people's motives are exposed?   Enema Moose Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 10:23 am:    You're a whiner, plain and simple. And yes, you are, and always will be, a victim, too.   A Non e-Mouse Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 07:22 pm:    By your definition, EM, Martin Luther King and the American Revolutionaries were "whiners" too, for they spoke out against injustice, and took action to better their condition... Ergo, you're a simple bigot! How can you say I'll always be a victim? You don't know me! That's just your arrogance showing! You think that my protesting hazing made me a whiner? That attitude tells me that YOU were/are a BULLY! I don't know who's more despicable...a racist or a bully... Anyway, I doubt very much that I'll be a victim again any time soon. But if I am, then yes, I'll definitely make a stink about it (whether bigots and bullies like you like it or not)!   Shirley Perkins Posted on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 08:30 pm:    Martin Luther King didn't whine for a dressing on his wounds. He made people aware of the need for a change(a positive change)in wrong attitudes and wrong philosophies. Tuition doesn't just cover the cost of materials for a course. It is also for the experience and labor from instructors, the administration of the school and many other expenses. Why in the world would you think you should receive $300 in material items for $300 in tuition?   Nicholas Liu Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 05:15 am:    You can't just click your heels and repeat 'I simply want to be left alone' and expect people you owe money to to magically go away.   Shirley Perkins Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 10:04 am:    By the way, from what I've read here, Mary isn't your aggressor. She is just one of the instructors defending her employer. Yours are the most aggressive postings I see here. I hope you've blown off enough steam that you can relax a little. I know how it feels to be hounded for money I don't have, but as you have said Longridge has agreed to leave you alone about it. Put it behind you. Take your kid(s) for a ride out in the country with the windows down and share the breeze with them and shoot the breeze with them. That kind of thing kind of helps you put things in perspective. (And you all might just have some fun). You're giving people the impression that your an unreasonable hothead when, who knows, you might just be a decent fella under too much pressure.   Enema Moose Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 10:27 am:    No, Martin Luther King and the American Revolutionairies fought against injustice imposed on them without their control. You went in with your eyes wide open and decided, after commiting to it, that you didn't want to do it. Or did somebody force you to sign the contract? I guess your word isn't worth the piece of paper it's signed on. Greed? You call them greedy? They offer a service and expect to be paid. You get seven credits for--what?--$550, plus at least $50 worth of books. Let's see, when I was in school my tuition was about $1000 for 12 credits, plus about $300 for books. And you know what? If I dropped my classes halfway through, I still had to pay. Poor me. And I'm sure Longridge has an army of lawyers behind them. You sure are a crusader, and it's a safer world because of you. Are you going after Exxon next? A racist? Where did you get that from? You don't know my race, and I don't know yours. In your original post you basically said that you left because the program was a scam and not worth the money. Now you say you left because you lost your job and couldn't afford it. So which is it? Is it a good program, or is it scam?   TCO Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 09:36 pm:    Save your money, wannabes.   Pat M. Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 11:07 am:    What? Spend your money, spend it all, you can't do anything with your money when you are dead. Enjoy spending your money on things. Spend it all. Take the Longridge course twice. Use appropriate expectations. This class will not make you a best seller. No class will. Luck and timing will play an important role for that as well as a little talent. Take the class, learn a little and have some fun.   TCO Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 01:38 pm:    If I said the sky was blue, Pat...   A Non e-Mouse Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 05:36 pm:    Nicholas: But I *don't* owe them money! That's my whole point! They came out WAY ahead in the deal! If anything, they owe me a refund! And they had the nerve to demand MORE to let me out... Shirley: True, Mary wasn't the aggressor. As you say, she was just defending her emplyer. But she apparently doesn't have all the facts -- such that they made a decent profit from me already... Enema: Yes, I caled you a racist after you called me a whiner and a victim. You came to an incorrect conclusion about me based solely on what I'd written without really knowing me, so fair is fair... As Shirley said, I'm really am a nice, decent, likeable guy. Maybe I sounded like a hothead, but like I said, being the "little guy," I was just using my writing skills (such as they are) to make as much noise as I could to defend myself against an aggressor who has all the legal power... If anyone here does, Enema comes across as the angry hothead...   Pat M. Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 05:49 am:    Yep, It really isn't blue. It just appears blue.   Shirley Perkins Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 06:38 am:    Okay, I've said about all I should say here. This should be my last posting. I'm still going to take the course with LR and hope they treat me right just to spite TCO, who has put me and any other prospective students down so roughly with his attempt to what? protect us from our own folly? If it works out, you'll see my name in print somewhere (not necessarily the award-winning novelist, but at least the bread-winning by-line). If it doesn't work out, well it's my own folly now, isn't it? Of course, I still have to pass the test...   Nicholas Liu Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 07:54 am:    Anonymous, you do realise that party A making a profit off party B doesn't automatically mean that party B's discharged his contractual responsibilities? If I have a glass of lemonade that cost me five cents to make, and you agree to pay me fifty cents for it but only pay me thirty cents before running away with the lemonade, I may have made a profit from you, but you still owe me twenty cents, and I'm not being greedy when I try to get you to pay up. Shirley, that's quite a silly reason to take up the course, if you don't mind my saying so. Why on earth do you want to 'spite' TCO? And isn't it a bit silly to take personal offence at his '[putting you] and any other prospective students down' when that group includes, oh, the whole world?   Bob Urell Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 08:43 am:    Wow. You want to learn how to write? Borges on Writing Hemingway on Writing Knight's Creating Short Fiction and In Search of Wonder Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics Raymond Carver's The Bath immediately followed by A Small Good Thing Colin Greenland and Mike Moorcock's Death is no Obstacle Maupassant's The Writer's Goal Anything by Anton Chekhov, Leo Tolstoy, Ernest Hemingway, Eudora Welty, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Jorge Luis Borges, Robert Sheckley, Lucius Shepard, Ursula Le Guin, John Updike, Franz Kafka and Gene Wolfe. And every other really, really good author you happen to come across. Listen to what they have to say, especially when it seems they're not saying anything at all. Read textbooks on Aristotelean logic and psychology. Take a seat in a coffee shop and listen to all the different ways people take their chai/latte/mochagrandeventewhatsit. Take a trip. Anywhere. Attend a seance. Run naked into the ring at a WWF match. Don't run away when they come for you. (Don't do that.) Oh, and then you might, just for kicks, after having slogged through all that pulp and gathered up all those "life experiences", try writing a million words or so. Then burn it. Repeat as necessary. That's how you become all the writer you can be. Or you can take a course. That works for some writers. It worked for Lucius Shepard, Paul Witcover, Doug Laine, Mary Rosenblum.... There is no one true way. If there were, writing wouldn't be an art, it'd be accounting. Hey, Nick. How's tricks?   Pat M. Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 12:08 pm:    Run naked into the ring at a WWE match. Does this happen often? How do they handle it, like baseball or (American)football?   candy tutt Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 12:30 pm:    Add to list: 'Writing Down the Bones' - Natalie Goldberg 'Zen and the Art of Archery' - Eugene Herrigel 'Bird by Bird' - Annie LaMott   Shirley Perkins Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 09:38 pm:    Nicholas, I'm not taking the course just to spite TCO. That was a joke. I had mentioned in my previous posts that I would like to take the course. It was the comments after that from TCO such as, "It looks like it is written for morons. People that stupid should not try being writers." "Take the course, Shirl. Suckers deserve their whipping." and "Save your money, wannabes." that drove me to spite. (Besides, I said, "I hope they treat me right just to spite TCO." I didn't say I'm taking the course to spite him/her.) The simple truth is I have a desire to write, I have a few ideas for material, but I need some basics and a little direction. I'm also a little self-centered and would enjoy the one-on-one instruction. I feel, based on the material I have seen from LR so far, they can provide those necessary things. I'm willing to pay a fair price for this service, and I do believe their price is fair. I've checked with the local colleges and they are not offering any more for any less.   Patrick Samphire Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 03:09 am:    The books that Candy suggests will either help you a lot or not help you a bit, depending on your personality. Same with Bob's. Generally, if you tend to work well with self-help books, Candy's will be your thing. If you want straightforward, down-to-basics books, then look into Bob's. As for courses, I think these work best when you've been writing for a while. Taking them as a complete beginner won't help a lot. You need to work some stuff out for yourself.   TCO Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 08:00 am:    I bet you "pass" the entrance exam Shirl. Have fun. You know what you are paying for. The whole thing still stinks (entrance "test", not showing the contract up front, exit fees). But if you know that and are happy with the attention you get, fine. I doubt it will make you a better writer, but maybe you will enjoy the interaction.   EDatlow Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 10:02 am:    Most professinally run workshops have "entrance tests" in that you have to submit your writing before you're accepted. All the CLarions are run this way. This indicates nothing shadowy.   TCO Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 02:32 pm:    Yeah, and they don't tell you the cost of the school until you take the test? It stinks and I don't give a damn if one of your cronies is involved. This isn't your board (I've stayed off that one) and I've got just as much right to post here as you...and a darn sight more brains.   EDatlow Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 04:08 pm:    TCO, is your last message to me? If so, how weird as I never said you shouldn't post here or anyplace else. If not, then you've got to be more clear. If you are referring to me: Mary is a one of my authors. I've published her for the first time this year. I don't see her more than once a year--maybe and I don't communicate with her very often. I wouldn't call her a crony. Brains? You're really funny, Mr troll :-)   EDatlow Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 04:22 pm:    They should give the cost of the course upfront. No argument there, but again that doesn't mean it's shady.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 04:30 pm:    TCO -- Do better. Your interruptions should at least be interesting.   Shirley Perkins Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 05:04 pm:    Thanks, TCO. I will enjoy the interaction. It may not make me a better writer, but it might just make my writing better. At the very least, it should help my punctuation and grammar and guide me through the submission process, don't you think?   Pat M. Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 05:30 pm:    C'mon TCO from reading this thread you can figure out that it wasn't an exit fee but that A Non e-Mouse signed a contract for a course with deferred payments. You're the financial whiz on this board... You seem very fiesty and antagonistic again. Do you need a Hug?   TCO Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 05:44 pm:    Yeah...   Pat M. Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 06:26 pm:    I'll be right up. You live in VA right? Actually, I was there on Wednesday. Just for a few hours though. Not sure when I'll be back.   TCO Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 06:42 pm:    Are you female and attractive?   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 06:50 pm:    Careful. That also might mean he urgently needs to get laid.   Pat M. Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 06:51 pm:    Noooo... I'm attractive, mostly to mosquitos but attractive none the less... Are you female and attractive? I assume female because of the once a month anger and antagonism. (no offense, ladies of the board. just teasing our good friend here.)   TCO Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 07:37 pm:    That's ok, it's your turn to be the woman.   Enema Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 11:14 pm:    Since you missed this the first time, maybe you can answer. In your original post you basically said that you left because the program was a scam and not worth the money. Now you say you left because you lost your job and couldn't afford it. So which is it? Is it a good program, or is it scam?   Pat M. Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 05:52 am:    I prefer the terms Pitcher and Catcher rather than defining gender roles. err... Uhh... OK, this direction has got to stop... So, Anyone heard of any other good scam accusations? Wanna talk about bad or failed Entrance Exams?   grace silk Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 08:53 am:    Has anyone heard of "S.T.Literary Agency" in the USA? GOOD/BAD otherwise?   Matt Hughes Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 09:16 am:    Preditors & Editors says: "S.T. Literary Agency: a literary agency also known as Sydra-Techniques, an agency representing literary works and screenplays. Charges fee. Poor contract. Not recommended." Matt Hughes http://www.archonate.com   Kathy S. Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 09:18 am:    If you search Speculations (www.speculations.com/rumormill), I'm sure some info will turn up.   grace silk Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 09:44 am:    thanks for the info , will check out Sydra and rumormill site. Cheers.   grace silk Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 10:12 am:    Well i checked www.Sydra-Techniques.com and yes, i was transported to S.T.Literacy Agency, but they state that they do not charge reading fees and that their rate for their services as an agent is 10% upon selling the work.........www.speculations.com/rumormill gave me no search results. Anymore info out there?   TCO Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 03:19 pm:    Enema, you had a good point.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 04:00 pm:    Grace -- Give these two links a look-see. There is not much practical illusion here, with most folks breathing platitudes from something just not right. 1. "WritersWeekly.com Forum :: View topic - The Straight Dope On ST Literary, aka Sydra Techniques" http://writersweekly.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11339 2. "S.T. Literary Agency - www.ezboard.com" http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=210.topic&s tart=1&stop=20   grace silk Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 06:55 am:    I haven't had my computer long and haven't searched the internet much for info. The sites suggested have sure opened my eyes. I'm glad I asked for help before sending my MS away to S.T.Agency. Thanks again guys/gals, you've helped a lot. I intend to e-mail the report 'The Straight Dope on...' with a 'please exlain', but I won't hold my breath waitng for a reply.   Patrick Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 07:58 am:    S.T. are notorious. You'd be well advised to stay very far away from them.   Mark Roberts Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 08:51 pm:    Okay, I've just read over 2 months of info on LongRidge. Thanks everyone for input; I'll make a decision soon. Mark Roberts (You have never heard of me)   Jessica Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 03:26 pm:    It just found out that the Long Ridge Writer's Group was a fake. Needless to say, I was deeply hurt and disappointed. I am only thirteen and I love to write, I've even got a few things that I wrote published. It's a very nasty scam.   LeslieWhat Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:05 pm:    Jessica, I'm sorry your experience was bad. It sounds like the most important traits you possess -your drive and your desire to write - are unharmed. If that's true, congratulations for being so strong. Take the hurt and dissappointment and use those feelings in your writing. That will give you power over the pain. If you want to talk more I'm what@radarangels.comquat (take off the quat) Leslie   Jeff Peery Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:48 pm:    So, how did they scam you?   LINDA BACHELOR Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 10:44 am:    HELLO,MY NAME IS LINDA. WHAT IS THIS I'M HEARING ABOUT LONGRIDGE WRITERS GROUP BEING A SCAM? I TOOK THE TEST AND WAS TOLD THAT I HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BECOME A WRITER. I LOVE TO WRITE AND WAS READY TO CONTACT THEM ABOUT BECOMING A STUDENT.IS THIS FOR REAL? ARE THEY A SCAM? IF SO,CAN SOMEONE TELL ME ABOUT A REPUTABLE ONLINE WRITERS COURSE. IF LONGRIDGE WRITERS GROUP IS TRULY A SCAM. I DON'T HAVE MONEY TO WASTE ON A SCAM.   NAM Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:42 am:    They appear to be legitimate, although $250 exit fees are extremely off-putting. However, if your test was done in the same manner as this post here and they really told you that you have what it takes to be a writer, I have my doubts.   TCO Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 06:03 pm:    It's bad news. Beware.   Anne Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 12:53 pm:    Folks, I happened on this site by accident, and you may all boo me if you wish, but I AM a student of LongRidge and I am not sure what A Non -E Mouse means by "nickle and diming" because I have found Long Ridge to be VERY financially practical. The complete cost for the program was just over $850.00 I have had to request several extensions due to family and computer problems and have never been charged an extension fee. I have worked with a WONDERFUL instructor - Sarah Clayton - who definately knows how to write AND how to instruct. I currently write montly articles for a women's crisis intervention publication and have received numerous positive comments concerning the changes in my writing. Everyone deserves their own opinion, and while it is possible that more people pass the "tests" than not, it doesn't necessarily mean they are scammers. It may mean that they see potential where others don't. It may mean that they are willing to work with anyone who has a true desire to write. I know from experience that not all of my assignments were well received. Sarah definately told me where I was off the mark and where I needed to make changes. Jessica, I'm sorry you are discouraged. Don't be. And please, for all the well meaning speculations being posted, don't take anyone's word for it. Contact them yourself. You can call them on the phone. Check the BBB. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have, just email me.   ann schultz Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 10:32 am:    I took this writing course. The personal assistance with the homework was not as advertised. A community college course would be a better start for learning how to write. Contact information for magazines and such, can be found in the local library or in the magazine you would like to write an article for. I finished half of the course and my instructor kept getting changed so I cancelled the contract with them. I am glad for the experience. It was an expensive lesson though. I took the course in 1993 and once in a while I get a letter asking if I would like to finish and get my certification. They're tenacious that's for sure.   Dennis_Mahon Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 04:51 pm:    It's bad news. Beware. Still at it, eh, TCO? We hashed this out over at AnalogSF a while back. http://www.analogsf.com/discus/messages/1/807.html?1094435457 And I have to second Anne's experience with regard to extensions- I haven't been charged either.   TCO Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 05:18 pm:    One born every minute...   Dennis_Mahon Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 03:37 pm:    Like you, TCO? Heaven forbid...   TCO Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 07:46 pm:    I wonder how many of the "customers" posting here enthusiastically work for this gig.   Dennis_Mahon Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:07 pm:    Not casting aspersions on me, are you?   TCO Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 08:52 pm:    "how many of" implies a subset, not a union. "I wonder" implies a suspicion, not a claim. Capiche? Next time, figure out these subtleties on your own.   Dennis_Mahon Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:45 pm:    A simple "No" would suffice. It's not like you to be so touchy, TCO.   TCO Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 08:07 pm:    ok.   Wilma Collins Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 12:28 pm:    This is interesting. I too am a student of longridge for the past year and agree with Ann. I live in Canada and have not had those experiences mentioned above. I knew the price before I started and so had the choice of accepting or ignoring. I haven't been charged any extra fees, even though I too have had several extensions sometimes for more than a month. The person who started this whole thing still hasn't answered the question that was put to him. If this disgruntled person curtailed the course because he/she couldn't afford it, then be forth right and say so instead of slandering without just cause. So I may lose my money, but I have to admit that I feel that I am getting what I paid for and the feedback I find is very good. Wilma.   Kjaere Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 08:00 pm:    I too am a member of LongRidge and have greatly enjoyed my experiences. I knew what I was getting into before I started. I throughly researched it before I got into it, and found it to be a ligit program. It is also featured in writing journals and magazines. It works out perfect for me because I can do the schooling at home. My instructor, Tom Hyman, has given me great feedback and I am confident in what I am learning and enjoying the process. That's all I have to say about that....   heather johnson Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 02:30 pm:    Where is the proof that this is a scam? All these posts are by people who believe that they were taken when the brochures clearly state that there are fees for withdrawing from the program and how much the fee is depending on timing of withdrawal. I don't know a university or college that doesn't do that. All schools you pay for have that set up in place. Education isn't always free and it isn't wrong to get pointers or ideas about writing. Most real writers out there have in some way gotten instruction or criticism on their writing. It is how you learn to write. The better business bureau says that they meet criteria for being a legit business.   Mike P Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 07:13 pm:    This is quite an entertaining thread! The fact that A Non e-Mouse and TCO have this same bs going on at another thread screams to me that they are the scammers here. http://www.analogsf.com/discus/messages/1/807.html?1094435457 Enema Moose- LMAO!   RobertHowell Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 08:50 am:    I have read a lot of the postings here and just had to add something. I also took the LongRidgeWritesGroup course a couple of years ago and had Mary as my teacher. I was very happy that I did so and loved the assistance Mary gave me. Maybe the proof is in the pudding by the fact that my first novel has been accepted for publication and will be out next year. Everyone has the right to be dissatisfied with a service, however maligning an individual or companies name because on this one incident is uncalled for, especially for those who have added derogatory comments based solely on another persons posting and not on a personal experience. Good luck to all who are trying to Break into Print. Robert   K. L. Vanderveer Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 07:18 pm:    I'm a student at Longridge - almost finished with the course. They deliver. No one can *make* you a great writer - that comes through your own efforts - but the instructors at LR seek to help you develop and hone the craft of writing. Education costs money. Nearly everything does; it's the nature of our society. Don't seek an education expecting to get equal material gains for your money. Education is about knowledge being more important than things. No education guarantees success in the absence of your own best effort, and like any school, some will flourish, some will fall by the wayside. But LR is better than the creative writing class I took at a university. Universities teach formula. LR provides mentors to help you develop your art. They are guides. You still have to make the climb. When you undertake to study an art form, your risk increases because art comes from the soul and what you learn is often a balance of what you are willing to lay on the table combined with what others are able to pass on. Even then, you still have to hold your work up before the world and stand by while they pass judgement on the heart of what you are. The way of the artist is not an easy path. Longridge does not clear it for you. They simply help prepare you as well as anyone can before you head out.   Barbara Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 07:39 pm:    I took the Longridge course for magazine and short story writing in 1999. My instructor was Leslie Davis Guccione. I really liked my instructor and they were very understanding when I had a death in the family and had to take a few months off. However, I do have to say that they did not deliver on their promise that by the end of the course, I would have at least one article or short story ready to be submitted to a publisher. I did not, and Ms. Guccione was not willing to help me with that - unless I paid for her servics as a copy editor, which was above and beyond what I had already paid for the course! So, while I learned much, I was not pleased with the final outcome. I did feel ripped off and the diploma they sent me was no comfort. I paid for the whole course before even starting, so it only costed me $485.00. I find it interesting that on their website, price is not mentioned, yet in their snail mail adverts, it is. I knew exactly what it was going to cost me before I signed up. I guess the bottom line is buyers beware - especially with online schools. Longridge Writers Group is legit, but that doesn't mean they're a good school or that you're going to get what you paid for.   John Ranson Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 04:47 pm:    Well I must say that,if a person is to research a program online,what better way than to read the pros and cons. I am considering this course from Longridge.They have contacted me through email and a phone call. I did take the test and did get an approval.So,the next step is to, research. The BBB, of Conn. did give it a thumbs up. The teachers, or,instructors do check out.Especially one author who writes for a Christian group. Now, I do not have the time to take a college course. Reading "How to Books" are fine but actual one on one scenarios seem to fit into my schedule.I feel that, for what my needs are in my interests in writing, will be met there. I subscribe to Writers Digest and they recognize LongRidge Writers Group, The monies,which btw,is affordable . I cannot imagine a tutor,nor an independent author,would charge me such a economical fee. I would assume more. I doubt that any author affiliated with LRWG,would actually work for an outfit that was not legit. LRWG is an avenue to take to improve ones skill. Not to guarantee ONES work to be published.If they did that then ,and only then ,would I consider it to be a SCAM....because,no one would be foolish enough to guarantee a unproven novice writer that he or she will be published. If one was to buy into that theory then as the old addage states,"I have a Bridge in Brooklyn for sale". The negatives prove no points. The positives made their case. I will continue research. There are workshops out there and probably better courses. Time will tell. But for now, as it stands in my book.LongRidge Writers Group is above board and the Charter Schools of Conn. will give a person seven credits if you complete the course,and yes,there is a fee,but if they are willing to give credits for a dysfunctional outfit....mmm.   Mike Adams Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 10:19 am:    " Top Ten Search Engine Placement for only $695.00 " -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Adams of Webseed.com (AKA SearchEngineVisibility.com) claims that for only $695.00 he will improve your search engine ranking, guaranteeing his customers "Top Ten Search Engine Placement" in the sixteen most popular search engines for any keywords you choose. This is an outright lie! Mr. Adams has no way of guaranteeing "Top Ten Search Engine Placement" and all he is going to do is take your money and run! Rest assured that no one can guarantee "Top Ten Search Engine Placement" and anyone who says that they can is a "Big Fat Liar" and needs to be exposed for the "Con Artist" that they really are. Mr. Adams also sells some "Spam Software" or mass email software as he calls it for $495.00 or $985.00 for the deluxe "Phishing" version at arialsoftware.com This software is the "Tools of the Trade" for any internet / email "Scam Artist". After doing a little more research on this chap I uncovered that Mike Adams claims to be the primary content contributor of the largest health content network on the Internet (Truth Publishing AKA NewTarget.com) Mr. Adams claims to have been chronically diseased where at the age of 30, he claims that he was "nearly" obese, diabetic, depressed and headed towards certain misery as another casualty of organized medicine and prescription drugs. However Mr. Adams post no medical proof that can backup any of his story. Mr. Adams claims that in trying to learn how to improve his health, he stumbled across a world of "little-known information" about disease prevention that put him on a whole new journey towards perfect human health (and another way for this "scamartist" to make a fast buck over the internet). Mr. Adams calls his Health advise the "Health Intelligence Files" and he offers these E-Files for $995.00 or as he say's the cost for one day stay in the hospital. Mr. Adams says his "Health Intelligence Files" are worth thousands of dollars but the E-files are not actually printed books and according to Mr. Adams "aren't quite finished yet" so he's letting people have them now for only $299.00 Even though Mike Adams is not a Medical Doctor he operates a string of fake health advice websites which include NewsTarget.com, HoodiaFactor.com, EmergingFuture.com, SpamAnatomy.com, VitaminFactor.org, CounterThink.com, HealthFactor.info, JunkScience.info, BrainHealthNews.com, LowCholesterolDiets.DietsLink.com, PublicHealthNews.org, PharmaWatch.info, HomeToxins.com, PoisonPantry.org, DepressionFactor.org & ConsumerWellness.org just to name a few. Are you starting to get the picture of how dangerous this man is? If you have had any contact or you have been burned by this "Con Man" you need to contact the FTC or your local authorities so that they can put this man behind bars and stop him from ripping any more people off with his scams over the internet. http://scam.com/showthread.php?t=7982   Fred Waiss Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 06:21 pm:    I'm glad I checked out this forum. I'm an old-timer that used to teach H.S. English, so I have no need for college credits. I took the LongRidge test a few years ago and passed, but I haven't been able to afford the fee. Now I can and I'm thinking of contacting them again. What I'm looking for in a course is reliable and honest feedback for my (mostly fiction) writing, plus something that looks good on a contact letter to an agent. I've written a full-length novel (the fist of three or four in a series, actually) and I'm having trouble getting an agent to even look at it, despite modeling my contact letter off several samples available on agents' own web sites. Is LRWG the best I can do for the dollar? Is there something better for what I want available? Any further help would be very welcome...the help you all have provided so far is considerable. Thanks.   Susan E. Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 07:35 pm:    I started Longridge a couple of months ago and I am thrilled with Mary and her honest feedback. I would say that it is well worth the money. This course can adjust to your busy life. There are three weekly forums online with Mary to talk with other writers about writing subjects if you can attend. There are also interviews with important people in the publishing world that are live and you can ask questions. There are tons of interviews to read even if you don't pay them. Check out their website for the interviews. Mary is a gem and I am a diamond in the rough hoping to be polished. There are also a couple of different options as far as payments. It has made me feel alive and connected. I did research other courses and this was the most bang for my buck. I wanted someone who actually sells their work teaching me how to do it. I also found that you can pick who you want as your instructor. I wanted Mary and I got Mary. Writer's Digest has courses as well but they are expensive and never seem to end. Do a Google search and you can get most of the prices. Good luck to you "old timer".   Amber Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 08:58 am:    First some of the instructors have toke the Clarion and they do have college credits that can be used for any college you want. I also looked up the college that the credits came from and it is a respectable college. I also am a student and have been for over 2 years and when I sent for the info on the shcool, I got the fee that they wouldn't info on the books I would be getting, letters with info on how the LRWG works and I also looked up books by some of there instructors and had found them just fine I even went to my bookstore and got a list of my insrtuctor's books under her name. Sometimes a writer writes under a pen name and that's why you can't find them. I have had nothing but good luck with LRWG and tell peopel about them and I will keep telling them about LRWG. So as a parting word any shcool is going to have fees and LRWG's fee was not a high one and they say if you feel that you did not become a better writer that they will give you back every buck you pay' d them. You also get from them a diploma after you finish the course. So I think with every thing they have it's a good deal and the best shcool for someone with a busy life and can't make the classes at another shcool.   Connie Allen Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 10:03 am:    Several years ago, I did a course writing for children for this same group. I was very satisfied.. My teacher was very very particular and took a lot of time editing my work. I loved her! They are very reputable with everything I've checked out about them and I came about this post by searching for their site due to the fact that I'd lost it. Thanks for giving it to me. I intend to take their adult course.   Matt_hughes Junior Member Username: Matt_hughes Post Number: 174 Registered: 04-2006 Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 02:11 pm:    Don't know if anybody checks these boards or not these days, but I've just had what, for me, constitutes inarguable evidence that the Longridge Group is legit: they've sent me a check for reprint rights to one of my F&SF stories, "Petri Parousia," that will appear in a teaching anthology entitled Voices in Today's Magazines, due out in August. Matt Hughes http://www.archonate.com

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